Scaling Retail Media with Organizational Design

This episode of Growth Sessions, Adam chats with Gemma Spence, Chief Commerce Officer at Omnicom Media Group on how a strong organizational design can help scale retail media businesses.

Gemma dives into how agencies should be thinking about structuring their teams and playbooks for success. From holistic strategies that cover the full customer journey, to building a curated, personalized shopping experience for consumers, Gemma talks through how Omnicom is approaching eCommerce's rapid growth.

Tweetables

“We really need to have talent that understands the end to end value chain of commerce, and also have that value network in place that allows them to pivot very quickly based on client's needs.” - Gemma

“We really need to have talent that understands the end to end value chain of commerce, and also have that value network in place that allows them to pivot very quickly based on client's needs.” - Gemma

“I firmly believe everyone within a network agency or organization needs to have some understanding about how commerce impacts their area of subject matter expertise. And actually they need to have enough knowledge to appease clients' needs. Whether that is to do with an Amazon strategy or the right level of investment planning or attribution model.

They need to understand the impact and the requirement from eCommerce through a commerce lens.” - Gemma

“We're seeing is that a lot of consumers are looking for personalization, they're looking for a really curated experience, certainly for the more premium end of their purchases.

So I think that we're going to see a rise in DTC and an even greater surge within DTC and then merged with social commerce where you're able to start complimenting the demand side with a tech stack and, and order management.” - Gemma

Transcript

Adam — Welcome everyone to growth sessions, where we interview agencies leaders in retail media. Today, we have a very special team of guests and a guest host as well. We have Gemma Spence, chief commerce officer at PhD worldwide and former CEO of OMG transact.

Gemma. Thanks for coming. And we also have a special guest host here today. Donna Sharp, managing director of media link. Donna, thanks for being here.

Donna — Thanks for having us, Adam.

Adam — I'd love to start with Gemma. Gemma. What is OMG transact and, what does a chief commerce officer do at a large holding company like OMG?

Gemma — Thanks. Well, first of all, thanks so much for having us Adam and really excited about, you know, the discussion that we're going to be having today. So, you know, OMG transactors, um, the way I describe it is it's, uh, an e-commerce consultancy. So, you know, e-commerce has become very, uh, in the moment it's been very relevant for all consumers given, you know, what's happened over the last 24 months, uh, but it's also, um, highly relevant to advertisers and to brands and, um, OMG, OMG transact is all about, you know, helping our clients, drive visibility and really own the digital shelf, through, from consideration all the way through to, um, the point of delivery and, and purchase, uh, within the, um, the, the commerce value chain.

So we work with a whole range of clients, um, to first of all, being part of a, you know, a large holding group and, and media agency. We first start by understanding actually their core customer and consumers buying behavior. And actually, what are the core triggers for convenience on choice and actually are there changes that, that consumer and that customer making to their, um, to their, their purchase, uh, planning, but also purchase cycle.

And then we use the. To do the, the entire planning process from the type of, um, routes to market, whether it's direct or indeed indirect channels such as Amazon and [grocery.com](http://grocery.com/) through, into the type of product. So is it going to be, you know, individual products or is it going to be a bulk buy and, um, what type of products are most appealing to, to the customer and then right the way through, into the content and the demand gen.

So we're the products, um, you know, uh, listed, uh, and also advertise in order to drive the right, um, demand and stickiness, uh, through, into, in, into, into the add to cart and on purchase. So, you know, really, um, it's been a bit of a labor of love, uh, over the last, uh, you know, four to five years and, um, You know, uh, we, we now have about 130 commerce, um, experts across 26 markets, um, that are really leading many different clients through a whole range of challenges and opportunities, um, as to how to orientate organize and capitalize on the opportunities around calmer.

Um, uh, so, you know, it's, uh, it's been a fantastic experience. So for the second part, you know, what does our chief commerce officer do? Well, I would say, um, my days are never quite the same, you know, some days you're talking to kind of exec, uh, leadership within, um, within a client, you know, who are going through commerce transformation and really working out actually, um, where, where should commerce it?

Is it sales? Is it marketing? Should it be direct line up to CEO? What type. You know, organizational structure or model was right through into the kind of day-to-day hustle of hitting targets and delivering exceptional plans for clients, um, through everything from retail media to, um, content, uh, and, and, and visibility strategies.

Um, so no day is the same. Um, and no client is the same as well. So, so really varied and, and a real variety of work. Um, you know, every other day.

Adam — And you mentioned this has been a labor of love for the past four or five years. What was the impetus behind starting this labor of love? How did Omnicom and you specifically decide we needed to make a bet on this. This is going to be big. What was the inception moment? And how did you know that was validated.

Gemma — So I think, um, like whole businesses, um, you know, it's, you know, first of all, about building up a, you know, a proof of concept or like a kind of minimum viable prototype. So, you know, with one of our, um, you know, one of our great clients, Unilever, we, we, we actually, you know, we're working together and partnering with them in developing some really innovative, um, retail search on BTO media strategies.

And, you know, we, we delivered some fantastic work, uh, together in partnership with, with the, uh, the global media, uh, teams and yeah. It was really born out of being able to build repeatable models that actually could be, um, lifted and shifted across different industries, different verticals. The actually not only kind of delivered the media, um, KPIs or objectives that were set, but actually helped transform their business.

And for me, I think that's the most important thing, you know, actually delivering strategies and actions that help nudge the business forward and help fundamentally the business grow from a market share or from a profitability standpoint. So. You know, back, you know, back, you know, five, five years ago or six years when I, when I joined Omnicom, um, it was really, you know, there were a small team of us, uh, that were working together on, uh, building out, you know, the, the commerce offering.

And I think the senior leadership within the organization, you know, really starting to set up when they could see, actually this was something that was scalable and that actually this, there was a real demand from the clients for this sorts of consulting and advisory type of service. And actually it was sticky and it was, it was really, um, uh, core to our value proposition with an as a media organization, because a media organization is all about consumer behaviors. And it's about that, um, understanding of what actually makes the customer tick. Well, what are the type of, um, initiatives and tactics that you can employ to help nudge them in the direction to, you know, to, to complete an action, whether that be clicking or, or indeed, um, purchasing.

So actually. It, it, it was really hand in glove with what the, the overall, um, media proposition was, and actually sat really nicely on top, um, as our, an enhanced, an end to end service. So I think like all leaders, you know, they, you know, they contemplated, you know, high, does it compliment, you know, high does it enhance, but also how does it help drive, you know, across an upsell as well as, you know, new endeavors into new, um, uh, kind of revenue, uh, and routes to market for them.

And, um, Yeah, like whole things, you there's lots of validation. And then there are lots of business cases that have to be built out. Um, but very fortunately the, um, uh, the, the, the leadership, um, in place, uh, saw the value. And also, I think with a lot of discussions with their key, uh, client stakeholders, they also, um, they were getting a lot of the similar, um, sentiments from, from senior clients that actually, um, e-commerce was going to be a big thing.

And then, you know, the pandemic hit and it, it surely was, and it was accelerated significantly.

Adam — And what got you personally excited initially to join and lead these efforts?

Gemma — You know, I, so I, I've never done the same. Never done the same job twice. And every job that I've done since, uh, you know, uh, since being on my graduate scheme was always the first time that the company had, um, had, had set it up so that we, I described myself as I'm an intra-preneur.

So like an entrepreneur in the inside and the, you know, the idea of being able to actually build a new offering, you know, looking at the minimum viable products, looking at the, uh, tech partners, such as yourselves. Um, and, and then building a actually what, what would be the right, um, offering that helps clients actually grow.

And I think. You know, if I answer your question really like, you know, definitively and directly, I love helping clients grow. I like seeing that they are transforming and they are being able to achieve their ambition. So, uh, for me, you know, when we're able to do that and I'm able to, you know, have a, uh, you know, an, a successful partnership with a client, uh, you know, that, uh, that, that gets my juices flowing.

Adam — Lovely, and so you recognized that there was a scalable model, there are similar playbooks for success. Lots of clients are interested in this, and transact is quickly become a global organization within Omnicom. Right. I think that when we spoke, you mentioned there's almost 140 people spread across 25 markets. And it's not just media. How do you find the right people from a media agency now moving into a commerce arm within a media agency?

Like how do you find people that want to move beyond just media and think about servicing clients in a commerce perspective. And is it a different sort of team member that you're bringing to this team? Or is it just retraining folks that have a media background into thinking like a commerce person?

Gemma — So I think that is a really great question. And it's also, it's one that's highly relevant, uh, certainly to our business, um, because we are a people-based business, right? Like it's, our service is built on having exceptional talent and having really smart people that help our clients figure out problems and help them grow.

So I think there's no just one answer to this. There's multiple answers and it's almost like peeling back the layers on an onion to get to the heart of it. The way that we look at it is, um, there is, um, from a, from a pure consulting and advisory standpoint, we, we really need to have talent that understands the end to end value chain of commerce, and also have that, um, That value network in place that, uh, allows them to pivot very quickly based on client's needs.

So I suppose a practical example would be having someone with that D to C expert to you. So they understand everything from how the backend and the tech stack works, whether that is, you know, the integration of, uh, you know, manufacturing center, merchant feeds, et cetera, et cetera, but also the understand the need for UX and CRO and what type of tactics can be put in place to drive the right, um, uh, kind of demand generation to the platforms and what it, what it really takes to, um, create a, um, you know, a highly profitable DTC platform.

So you're always going to have that kind of, let's say subject matter expertise required and, you know, as much as possible, what we try to do is bring in, um, commerce experts, um, who, you know, technically are, you know, client background consulting background, um, who, who have that hands-on experience of dealing with the platforms, but also have the cross category and the, um, the, the, the, the, the, the multi-market experience, depending on the needs.

But then at the same time, you're going to need to have generalists because there's going to be some requirement being able to plan any broader go-to market strategy for a client where you're going to have to balance the volume and then the pre-session and the skill required across the different routes to market.

And then the assortments based on the demand from the target customer and consumer. So I think that for the way we've done it is almost like when you build a football team, right? Like you have. The, you know, you have your goalkeeper who's tall and big and, you know, quite dynamic and, and able to, you know, to, um, obviously, you know, defend and save the goals.

But then you've also got, you know, the right defense. You've got the right kind of attackers in place. So I think it's, um, been a bit of a jigsaw puzzle and, and building out the right skills and the right talent in place. And that has been absolutely an acquisition strategy. So to, to find great talent, but then equally.

And this is where I talk about the kind of peeling back the layers on the onion is that, you know, it's also about taking the organization on a journey. And I, again, I want to really like LIBOR this point, um, because. You know, no man is an island and no company is like, you know, can, can be successful, um, through one or a pocket of people's kind of endeavours, you know, commerce is truly end to end.

Um, and actually everyone, I firmly believe everyone within a network agency or a network, uh, organization needs to have some understanding about it. How commerce impacts their area of subject matter expertise. And actually they need to have, uh, enough knowledge to, um, appease clients' needs. Um, you know, whether that is to do with, you know, an Amazon strategy or, you know, the right level of investment planning or, you know, attribution model.

They need to understand actually the, um, the impact, uh, and the, the, the requirement from e-commerce through a commerce lens. So we within, uh, Omnicom media group, uh, and certainly with my hat on, for a PhD, uh, worldwide, we've been building a really comprehensive, um, competency framework that takes effectively our generalist, um, or, uh, you know, someone who has a subject matter expertise outside of commerce.

Outside of commerce or commerce advisory and then takes them on the, the, the kind of journey so that they can learn D to C marketplace on demand, investment planning. Um, you know, th th th the, it is around, um, attribution in a way that really enhances their, their core subject matter expertise. Um, but then equally it, it leaves the foundations, uh, the proficiency, the development, and the expertise out.

So that actually a subject matter expert and commerce have the ability to do continue personal and professional development so that, um, you know, they are, they also have a path to greater understanding. So for me, it's a three-pronged approach. You need to. Bring talent in, um, who have that kind of, uh, um, key area of focus, take the company on this kind of transformation program and agenda, um, you know, through, uh, subject matter expertise, across various subjects, and then also a broader transformation program for, um, you know, the, the wider business so that, um, you know, everyone has, uh, a broader understanding of, um, of commerce and, and how it's applied, um, to meet and exceed client's needs.

Adam — And the fun thing is it's ever evolving and,

Gemma — oh my Goodness

Adam — the six months is very different. What's going to happen on the next six months, you spoke about this team that you're forming and almost like the football club on the other side, you have these client teams that are ever-changing as well. And Donna, medialink talks to tons of brands, tons of potential clients for an agency.

Um, they're all asking questions around retail media and where they should sit and how they should form teams. I'd love to know at a high level, how you and media link begin to advise clients in this and how the clients can put themselves in the best position to be as successful as possible with their agency partners.

Donna — Absolutely Adam and I, I love just echoing what Jemma was talking about. The fact that you're recognizing that the agency is going on a very similar transformation as your clients, because the clients are having the same discussions around when we are doing marketing transformation journeys. You don't just pick up and move in an entirely new group of people and expect them to succeed.

And many of the CEOs that we work for say, Hey, we're not in the business of, of ending jobs and ending careers. We're here to actually help build. And despite the fact that people move around a lot longer, these days, a lot of these major CPG companies, if you look at some of the most successful leaders in e-commerce, they have come from decades of experience on traditional shopper, marketing on customer teams, et cetera.

And I think, uh, Gemma, what, what you're both doing from an internal standpoint is a nice reflection of the transformation that your clients are going through. And I know at MediaLink, we have been really excited to see that type of transformation happening at agencies like Omnicom, because. The, the, some of the, you know, movement in the past few years leading up to the pandemic, we knew that e-commerce was important to a lot of clients, but it was in obviously pockets, how big things were going to scale.

And if I'm a holding company, I invest in scale. In general, you spoke a little bit about that. And so the fact that I think some of the groups like Omnicom so quickly made this decision to invest and realize that it was going to be that combination of bringing outside in, and then taking those passionate, excited individuals who had a lot of building blocks to be able to convert them is actually going to be very timely and beneficial because what we've been seeing, especially in the past year is that the majority of e-commerce structures tended to be bifurcated in CPG organization. So they tended to sit under sales and then they got into this kind of squirrely uncomfortable discussion about the retail media portion of it.

But many in the sales community would say that's a very small portion of, of what is actually commerce. And on the marketing side would actually say that's a huge, that's a huge impact, particularly when there's no such thing as a physical shelf. Like how else are you going to get in front of consumers?

And so in this past year, we have been doing significant amounts of organizational transformation around how do you start bringing those skillsets and that accountability together. And that's why clients need partners who understand that end to end full consumer journey that Gemma is talking about because as you start to take folks who have been on customer teams and really only focused on hitting the specific numbers that Amazon or Walmart or whoever your customer is, and all of a sudden, you're now moving into more of a marketing role where you need to do demand generation, which is not quite as linear to an individual channel.

It gets a lot more complicated and a lot more fun for those of us who I think have been in media for a long time.

Adam — Is there an ideal model Donna, or is every brand different? Is there an ideal way to approach this?

Donna — Well Adam we wouldn't make any money if there was one model and I just told you on the phone. Um, but I, I will say we have seen.

A lot more like early on, if you look like five years back, some of the companies who had truly invested in early e-commerce, the standalone team was very popular. So years and years and years ago, you heard about Pampers creating a tiger team that had all of the capabilities they needed to succeed in E-commerce that included everything from supply chain to marketing, to pricing, et cetera. That obviously worked for very small pockets and is why you saw like these much smaller emerging D to C businesses where literally there were only so many people within a company were able to scale at such a high pace, but that's obviously not sustainable.

When you look at some of these major organizations that are scaled portfolios by design, there is a benefit to that. And so that's where we're starting to see a lot more of collaboration where the previous two years ago, we would have said at least 80% of e-commerce, including retail media sat under a sales reporting organization.

That's starting to be much more of a blended accountability. And again, a lot of it has to do with the aptitude and the capabilities of a marketing leadership team and many times. 75% of the talent who actually executes marketing is sitting within agencies. So that's sitting within a client's walls. It is the agency partners that is that extended ecosystem and team.

And so to be able to go in and have a reasonable conversation with the sales team about why, if retail media and all media are looked at together would be a benefit to driving total demand and total conversion for the business. You have to also be able to speak in some of the same language. And so we started to see a lot of this earlier kind of education happening right at the pre 2020 in the beginning of 2020, and then a rapid fire because there were so as the money goes, a lot of people start to realize like, Hey, where is this coming from?

Which budget is, is actually going to shift. And so that that's when all of a sudden, if I'm the CMO, I care, I care a lot more. Um, so I think that the ideal model right now is still shared accountability because what we've found is to the point. To the points of an understanding of the customer relationship and the channel relationship.

That is the same way, understanding media and how media operates. Sales customers have a very different retailers are very different structure and approach and what they value is very different. And so I think you still have to have that blend, but a lot of it is just time, right? Because you just need people who had experience on both sides.

And some of the, I think Gemma you've even had some clients who have gone through this who had drastic change in the past year because of the need to flip so quickly to aggressive e-commerce sales when restaurants and bars are closing. I mean, there are companies that pivoted significant amounts of their staff from brick and mortar or on-premise to all of a sudden learning e-commerce.

And so it's just a matter of time that more people I think are getting educated on both sides.

Adam — Gemma. What successes have you've seen from clients? What are the typical organizational design models on the client side? And, and you mentioned that you create almost subject matter experts within Omnicom. How do you compliment the client side organization with those subject matter experts?

Gemma — So I think I, you know, like, you know, like every client and as Donna said, you know, every client is different, right? Like every single client, even, you know, if you're looking within the CPG world, you know, and you look at two very similar, um, businesses, you know, the way that they've, you know, acquired new companies, the way that they have organically grew in their footprint, you know, their geographies, et cetera.

So you're never going to have, you're never going to be able to create a carbon copy. And one structure is not going to be able to be lifted and shifted into another, another organization. Perfectly. What I, again, echoing what Donna, Donna, um, mentioned earlier. I think back two to three years ago, I think we saw a lot of, um, A lot of, um, client organizations, um, using the sidecar model.

So you know, that high incubation, um, the ability to be agile, to be nimble, you know, feel smartly, feel fast and control all of the different aspects that are required to be successful within e-commerce. Now, given the focus and the reliance on e-commerce not only to be, you know, six, seven, 10% of the NSPs and the seals up for an organization.

Now moving into being in some cases, a quarter or even a half of, of overall sales for organizations within, you know, whether that be consumer, electronics, or apparel, um, it then gives the e-commerce business or e-commerce teams a much greater, um, She added the PI and more C within the, the organization as a whole.

So actually what we're seeing more and more is that more of an integrated model is required. And we're seeing a lot of our clients pivoting now into moving from that kind of sidecar into, you know, under a sales or even in some cases under marketing, um, leadership. Um, I, I think that there is, um, you know, there's, there's never going to be one set model that works because some of our clients are highly decentralized, some are highly centralized.

Um, but they are certainly shifting to more of that integrated view, given the, um, the reliance and the focus and the, the sheer and which e-commerce, um, uh, represents within their business.

Adam — Can you give us some examples of clients that have gone through this transformation over the past couple of years and how, um, Omnicom has been able to support them and help them grow?

`Gemma` Sure. So I think a great example is, um, one of our, our, our primary clients, uh, Diaggio, you know, you, you mentioned earlier with bars and restaurants, um, you know, being hit heavily within the pandemic. You know, the beer, wine and spirits category, you know, was probably one of the categories that was, um, most effected, um, during the pandemic.

And, you know, I would see certainly from my, um, you know, uh, co close relationship with the, the, the Diageo teams, the pivoted very, uh, quickly, the had a number of, um, you know, really, uh, kind of game-changing programs such as, uh, one being. On the bar that was put in place in order to support a lot of their, um, you know, uh, kind of own treat business, um, and, and help really kind of pivot the business into the e-commerce space.

Um, and you know, everything from their, you know, their endeavors are in their centers of excellence, um, into their local markets was absolutely focused on moving the needle, um, rapidly and, um, at peace across the entire organization. And it absolutely worked, you know, the, um, you know, they had their recent earning, uh, you know, coal that, you know, talked through their, their, their overall performance, which was, you know, in light of, you know, a very, um, challenging period of time and really exceptional, uh, results.

Um, and that was due to, I think, a real concerted effort. Certainly at the leadership level. Um, but then also down into, um, the, you know, the different, um, disciplines, uh, and subject matter expert experts across all aspects of the value chain that I, I talked about earlier, but also, um, in step with the local markets, we are, you know, e-commerce is a transacted, um, um, you know, at and D.

Adam — And for many people in the U S they may not know that you can actually get alcohol on Amazon in several European markets, which is a big deal. Right. I think alcohol sales exist on Amazon in the UK, Germany and Italy. Correct me if I'm wrong, Gemma. I might be, I might be off by three or two there.

Gemma — Um, so like, uh, all, um, it's an endeavors, they are expanding rapidly.

So, uh, you are correct. There is, um, a number of markets I think for, uh, that are, um, treating right now for beer, wine and spirits. However, the are, um, uh, setting up a number of other, um, uh, markets to go live with them either later this year or early next year. So yes, in Europe, um, uh, you know, without that, you know, it's got slightly different, less legislation in place.

So, um, it is, uh, much more, uh, easy to, uh, purchase alcohol, uh, via Amazon on, on other, uh, kind of grocery and on-demand platforms.

Adam — And, and to unbundle that if that is the case and when everything goes online, I need to completely reorient my supply chain from going to brick and mortar retailers and bars and restaurants to a large aggregator of demand like Amazon. I then would need to make new listings and product pages and brand stores for some, maybe some products that weren't on Amazon at the time, because I was focused on brick and mortar and then dramatically reallocate media spend from offline traffic, maybe some out of home traffic, maybe some sales traffic or brick and mortar to all digital, and primarily with Amazon.

Right? Am I, am I nailing this one? Gemma? It sounds like it was a fun client.

Gemma — Do you know what their, uh, a remarkable business, uh, full of really remarkable people. Um, and it has been, um, uh, a partnership in the truest of senses. So, uh, you know, it was fast and furious, lots of things to do. Um, yes, Amazon is important, but it's not, you know, it's not the be all and end goal.

So it's also about, um, you know, and I always go back to where, you know, you, you want to fish where the fish are, right? Like you, you want to be present and visible where your customer, your core customer is, um, is, is shopping. So, you know, with that, that in mind building out, you know, I kind of. Inside-out strategy that, you know, looks are actually the consumer orientation, you know, where to play and therefore we are to win, um, based on, you know, war is going to be most profitable and more sustainable for their business longterm, but you're right.

I mean, every aspect, you know, um, whether it's supply chain and actually looking at the, um, you know, the right, um, uh, kind of, uh, the right supply chain model. So whether that is going to be consignment stock, or it's going to be looking at, uh, you know, some sort of like Kanban solution or, you know, looking at the different types of fulfillment, um, solutions in place for not only Amazon, but across the, across the spaces is always going to be tricky for brands.

Um, uh, so, you know, it makes, it makes a very interesting space for sure.

Adam — And you mentioned you need to be where the fish are, the fish aren't only on Amazon. What are emerging channels specifically in Europe that you find particularly interesting. And how are you advising brands on activating on those other channels?

Gemma — You know, just tying back to the thing that you said earlier. The, the pace of change within commerce is absolutely outstanding. Like it's, um, in some ways it's also a little bit scary because you have to keep up to date with all right. Like, um, so I mean, there's, there's a ton of channels. EV given that commerce is done, you know, transactions are done locally and there's so much local nuance.

Um, there there's, it's often market by market. Right. You know, and what I would see is actually, um, a lot of the grocery partners, um, you know, given the pandemic, given the pivot into, uh, into e-commerce as a, you know, a high growth area for them, the, um, you know, the have been also restructuring, right? Like they, um, have been building out, uh, the right platforms and the right, um, you know, end to end operations in place so that the, uh, are, um, also, um, competitive with the likes of Amazon and other pure players.

Um, so I'd say that that is absolutely a growth area. You know, it's, it's obviously grew in given the pandemic and given, you know, these new behaviors that have been built, um, through the pandemic by consumers. I think there's still a lot more of, um, kind of Greenfield space for growth within those channels.

And also tapping into the, um, the consumer insights that these channels have from us CRN, from a personalization, from a retail media standpoint. So lots of opportunity. And I think we're going to see a merging together if the auto or the online to offline and offline to online affects within that space.

I think also given, you know, the, the, the real focus of convenience and being able to then tap into the right kind of selection and choice that can be delivered. You know, not only, uh, today, but you know, within like a 15 minute, um, time slot. So I think that, you know, the on demand platforms, um, are, are definitely an area for, for growth given.

You know, they are, they are, you know, they're effectively an affiliate network in many respects. Um, so I think that, uh, you know, you're going to see, um, a real, um, concerted focus, certainly from a client's standpoint in, uh, really tapping into the, the opportunity of, you know, the Uber eats of deliveries, the Instacarts, um, because actually there is, um, you know, there's the ability to start, um, looking at some creative solutions around, you know, or pricing elasticity or the right configuration of, of products that might be coming from various, um, you know, VDS, uh, kind of retailers and partners.

So I think that that's also going to be a huge growth area and. Also, what we're seeing is that a lot of clients are, you know, a lot of, sorry, not clients, consumers are, you know, they're, they're looking for personalization, they're looking for, um, a really curated experience, certainly for the more premium end of, of, of their purchases.

So I think that actually, we're going to see, um, you know, a and DTC and, you know, an even greater search within DTC in the March with social commerce. Um, and you know, some of the really interesting partnerships that we've seen, uh, you know, whether that be, you know, Facebook and Shopify, Google and Shopify, um, and, and, and where you're able to start, um, complimenting the demands, the demand side with, uh, kind of integrated, um, uh, tech stack and, and an order management.

So, um, I think it's going to be a very interesting at space. Um, and yeah. You know, it would be good to also see where, you know, things like from a creative standpoint and from more of an expedience standpoint, you know, the, um, the EEI at the, the kind of AI starts, you know, um, tying in even more around the type of, um, you know, uh, relevancy and commercial factors, as well as, you know, platforms like, um, or, or technologies like, uh, VR on, um, any form of augmented reality to, uh, give people a real sense when they're at their home of the products and services that they're looking to buy.

Adam — I think you just described like a trillion dollar plus opportunity across many different ways of purchasing and, and Donna, you chat with a lot of these retailers, right?

Donna — Yes. I think Gemma hit the nail on the head that it's the same transformation that is happening. If you're a manufacturer, if you're an agency looking to provide the services that your clients need, the retailers were going through the same.

I mean, we're currently working with, uh, with a major retail platform on how they optimize their marketing processes, both for themselves, and then for their supplier partners to be significantly more streamlined. And I think some of the areas, Gemma that you're speaking of that are exciting are also where, and dare I say.

Amazon is obviously a powerhouse in terms of a lot of driving conversion and retail media. But some of these newer players are coming up with very different business models. And in many cases are focusing on newer areas of the funnel, like product discovery and, and trial. And that it becomes interesting because it is that blended question between, you know, how, who do I want to be as a retailer?

What is the role of retail media? I know it can help me drive margin and I know ideally it can help me sell more products, but some of the retailers we're working with are making very different choices between what they want to be as a business. There's always going to be some of the same basics, which are like, we want to be, you know, the best retail partner for our suppliers.

We want to prove that we drive incrementality, but at the end of the day, the way that comes to life, for instance, in some of the discovery engine that you've experienced on Instacart in very early stage, the development of their retail media offerings to even what a roundel versus a Kroger is 84 51 prioritizes in the U S I mean car four's announcement earlier this year, when they talked about, you know, coming up with a very formal strategy, that was all partner-based was an interesting one, because there are many major retailers who have said.

Amazon has been so successful and they have built everything. They have built everything and then made things third-party API accessible. So amazing companies like Perpetua can make us work, but it's been very interesting to see a very public flip from some of the retailers to say, Hey, we are not, I'm going to try to be a technology business.

We're going to try to work with the best technology businesses. And that's actually going to make us easier for you to plug in. So both the transformation on the yeah. Last meeting to provide the right consumer experience. But the advertising experiences have been quite different, which I know Gemma, it has been both a frustration because there's no one size fits all approach to any of these platforms, but also can be somewhat exciting I think for things that your team are looking at in terms of like, what are, you know, what is my palette to work with? And it's, it's so much more than just, you know, search and targeted display.

I'm curious Gemma, how your team has been looking at with all of the fragmentation that I know you've shared with us. Like how, how are you thinking about holistic strategies versus channel and customer specific strategies? And we've talked a little bit about the organizational design, which sometimes with clients makes it difficult, because if you've got a team who all they care about is Tesco, it's really hard to talk to them about a holistic strategy, but curious how you guys are tackling that because obviously, you know, when, when you're doing a lot of your bigger or high-level consulting and activation work, it's, you have to, you have to tow both lines.

Gemma — Totally. And I, I, you know, I loved your, uh, the way that you described that there is no one size fits all. You're absolutely right. Like retail media, like is. Just growing exponentially every, I mean, every day I, you know, when I wake up and I start going through my feeds and I start, I learned something new every single day.

There's new technology. There's prolific prolification of, um, the, the partnerships as well between, uh, the different tech providers. And there's, you know, there's many, many different, um, Opportunities that clients can start capitalizing on. So the way that we typically do this is, um, and again, there's not one size fits all because every client has a unique structure.

You know, we have different point people, uh, depending on the client's orientation, but largely what we do is we, we would work together with our clients to set the north star. So what is strategically most important and what are their metrics that matter around that? So that we have, you know a formalized, um, as it were like commercial and media and marketing set of KPIs that we, we are going to be focusing on in order to drive, um, and affect change within, within the retail media and performance media landscape.

Based on that at a kind of a global or a local market level, we would then run an audit of the different retail media and performance media, um, opportunities in the market. And then like whole greet strategies. You're going to prioritize them, right. Because no, no business can do everything. Um, so what we would do.

It is it's as, um, prioritize based on their total, uh, levels of investment, um, the different, uh, channels and then the different orientations of those channels based on those metrics that matter. And that would then be tied back into their, their kind of overall investment strategy around, you know, whether it's going to be ROAS or ACOS or, you know, um, uh, market share or, you know, anything to do with penetration or, or, you know, NSV, so that would then tie back to their kind of their, um, higher order or what they're looking to achieve.

And then from that, we would then get into the individual channels. So it's like setting that the broader go-to-market around the shopper media, on conversion marketing, um, activity. We would then say, okay, actually, what's going to be the, the, the, the, the focus, um, around always-on and those areas that we're going to, uh, test, um, and feel fast, or feel smartly and learn, and then maybe move into being that the high priority areas.

And then we would then break it down in, in channel around actually, what's going to be the right orientation. Are we going to do DSP? Are we going to do affiliates? Is it going to be, you know, pure, you know, sh shopping, motivated? Are they going to be, um, kind of, uh, the upper funnel mid or low, and then what are going to be the right tactics for switching and, you know, you know, D doing the was, um, more tactical endeavors around getting people, um, uh, or consumers to, um, Star at attaching a certain items to their basket.

Um, and that, you know, it's our continual cycle because as we've just talked about, it's a, it's an ever-changing landscape. So, um, we, we typically do this on a quarterly basis so that we, um, we're able to then keep scanning actually new, new opportunities, new partners, you know, um, in the market that we can, we can, uh, test and, um, you know, put in place with, uh, with our, our key clients.

Adam — And you've also built out your own PR or Omnicom has its own PR pride, proprietary tech, correct. You have a shelf product that's able to measure all of this.

Gemma — So within Omnicom, I mean, it's, again, it's been like a 10 to 11 year endeavor where you may have heard of Omni, which is, uh, Omnicom's people-based in precision marketing platform, um, that has been built out, you know, it's cool.

Almost everyone in Omnicom has access to it. You know, the, um, I think there's about 13,000 active users on a daily basis that do sign on to the platform. Um, and you know, it's also been built, uh, together with partners, right? Because actually, um, there's a whole raft of data that's out there. You know, data is the biggest commodity in the world and, um, you know, data Vitis heavily in terms of quality and, and also the, um, you know, regulation and new orientation market by market.

So only is built based on a combination of partners, um, and client data, so that we're able to look at first, second and third party and use it to understand actually the, the drivers of, um, behaviors. So that we can plan really effectively. Um, it is our, uh, kind of, uh, an end to end platform, but within it, what we, what we noticed quite early on, uh, over the past couple of years is, um, that actually whilst, um, it is our super platform for, for doing, um, media and comms planning, actually, commerce, as we have talked about is, um, is very fragmented, it's siloed.

And we there's, it has so many considerations from everything from supply chain to, um, you know, the, the platform and partners it's highly locally new on. So we needed a slightly, a different operating system that would allow us to, um, gather the insights that, and, and then build the, you know, the kind of actionable recommendations and put those in.

And to police for clients, um, so that we can, you know, drive visibility and, and strong conversion. So yes, we've, um, we've got a platform it's called Omni shelf, um, and it follows our, um, our proprietary framework. Uh, the shelf, uh, goes from before the shelf, which is all more about category platform and, uh, you know, and, and, um, uh, what category platform and insight level planning, um, all the way through, into the right type of demand generation tactics that are required in order to bring the customers.

And showing the, the, the, the right, uh, behaviors and, and certain motivations arraigned on a given purchase. Um, and, uh, you know, it allows us to streamline some of these, uh, aspects that are required. But as, as I mentioned, you know, our, um, our philosophy is very much around working with partners because, and I'm a firm believer that certainly within the commerce space, it is so fragmented.

It is so locally nuanced. And actually, uh, there are so many different aspects to consider that, you know, it's, it's near on impossible to do it all. Um, Brilliantly on your own and, you know, working together with Perpetua and working together with many other partners, we're then able to slot and the right technology that allows us to do the different aspects of, you know, the kind of shelf management, um, in a way that is sustainable.

And that delivers, you know, strong visibility and strong conversion that, um, helps our clients really, um, you know, grow. Um, I read that they're, they're looking to, um, uh, grow within their business.

Adam — Then one of the things that we've started to learn is as there's more and more fragmentation, more and more expertise is required. And because this space is so new many brands just simply can't hire fast enough to get that level of expertise. And for that reason alone agencies are more important than, yeah. Um, agencies who have built up in centers of excellence to support brands, um, leveraging technology to get the best possible results for brands is, is where the, the happiest marriage tends to sit, sit at the moment.

This has been great. We're wrapping up and I I'd like to leave with one final thought from both of you. And we ask anyone, everyone at the end of these podcasts, if you were to give one prediction for the next year in retail media, what would your prediction be? I'll go with you, Donna. First.

Donna — I think we already know that the, the amount of spend in retail media is growing at a huge rate.

I think the biggest. Tipping point is we've been talking a lot about the full funnel of driving demand generation to conversion. It's going to be the flip of that, which I see coming from all of the marketing kind of influence and, and shared accountability coming into this space will be how is retail media now being measured metric?

And ideally is proving itself. And therefore driving increased spend around what's the haloed impact to overarching brand, um, which has been a bit of a gray space these days. And something that the broader traditional media players are a little bit nervous about. But I think that's the next frontier that we're going into in terms of both structurally getting the measurement.

Right. A lot of the tools that Jen was talking about work just as well to look at, from conversion out, from exposure on platform to broader brand impact and not just driving to the immediate ROAS.

Adam — And Gemma, you?

Gemma — I, um, I, I think that, you know, retail media has, you know, as Donna mentioned, it's, um, it's had a 10 X in some cases, 20 X, uh, increase in importance and spend, uh, within the, you know, the, kind of the broader landscape. And I think that that is going to continue as we come out of the pandemic, just given the changes in consumer behavior and, uh, from what we're seeing, actually the, um, the, the knee you behaviors that have now been set, um, for the way that people discover and certainly purchase, um, with them.

Many many different, uh, channels, uh, certainly within grocery and lifestyle, uh, dot com. I think what we're from my side, I think probably one of the biggest, uh, areas that we're gonna see, uh, really create a greater demand in this space is going to be the ability to, for brands to start, um, really getting under the skin as to the.

Their core customers and how their core shoppers are behaving in these platforms, whether that is looking at semantic data or con you know, uh, looking at, um, transactional data, being able to understand the true behaviors and the true drivers of choice and selection and, um, the, uh, the, the, the, the path of purchase within the platform.

And there's many. New, uh, opportunities to do this. Uh, you know, the clean room environment is an area that is really underutilized right now, we know that a number of retailers are starting to, um, build a partnerships, so that they can start tapping in, in a more scalable manner to really starting to pull together different data sets and really understand those drivers to perhaps resell on to, to brands and to, to, uh, network agencies and advertisers. So I think that, um, by those new endeavor setting up and scaling fast, I think that we're going to see an, uh, an influx of spend, uh, within retail media. Um, uh, not only just across, you know, the, the large conglomerates or, you know, multi-market, uh, you know, retail players, but actually into the local, um, uh, kind of, uh, cash cows if you will, um, in the market.

The other thing is, I think that, you know, is the, the connection point into their physical store. So we think about retail media very much. The, uh, digital, uh, kind of media and the, you know, the digital media that's driving, uh, to a digital shelf, but I actually think, and certainly there's huge, you know, huge amount of, um, new technology providers that are really ramping up, um, and, and building partnerships with the in-store, um, uh, you know, with, with a number of retailers to start being able to determine the in-store customer journey and use some of those insights and those data points up to augment, um, again, uh, the, the, the, the, the, the media and advertising, um, approach for our business.

So I think another massive, uh, opportunity and an area that's going to be. Really, I think a big driver for growth in this area is going to be that open mentation of the altar or that we've seen work so successfully. And many of, you know, Eastern markets such as China. So I think, I think that's going to be one to watch too.

Adam — That's really exciting. And identity becomes a huge role in that. And identity is going through this huge transformation as well. Um, awesome discussion. Thank you so much, Gemma for your time. Thank you so much, Donna, for your time. This was great. Uh, thanks again.

Donna — Thanks for hosting us, Adam.

Gemma — Thanks so much. It's my pleasure.